Vashalice Kaaba on 'Library in a Box'.

speaker-0 (00:21.848)
Welcome to Harshnayam Podcast. Today I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Vashalice Kaaba, a brilliant scholar, librarian, grant writer and the executive director of the Global Literature in Libraries Initiative with a PhD from Florida State University and a career helping social impact organizations secure more than 10 million US dollars in funding. Her work beautifully blends literacy, cultural access and community transformation.

In this episode, Dr. Kaaba shares the deeply personal roots of her career, starting with her grandmother who grew up in the segregated American South and used the Bible, newspaper and hands-me-down books to turn her into a phenomenal reader. She also reflects on her childhood library trips, where she first noticed a painful lack of books representing people of color.

A formative experience that now drives her lifelong research into black youth literature and equitable representation. The heart of our conversation focuses on her groundbreaking initiative called Library in a Box, which is a portable, scalable solution designed to spread literacy without the need for traditional brick and mortar walls. Inspired by her experiences as a Peace Corps volunteer in Uganda and a Fulbright Scholar in Kenya, Dr.Kaaba designed this project to overcome steep barriers like a lack of infrastructure, funding and resources. The box itself features an e-reader, a terabyte drive preloaded with thousands of digital books and a specialized manual meant to guide everyday individuals on how to run a grassroots library right in their communities without needing a formal university degree. We also discuss how this incredible project empowers.

communities to maintain absolute autonomy over their own education, allowing them to circumvent political book bans and censorship by keeping diverse, inclusive literature accessible outside the traditional library ecosystem. It's an inspiring look at how a simple, innovative idea can turn access to stories into a revolutionary act of love and joy. Let's dive into the episode.

speaker-1 (02:41.698)
My inspiration for getting into this field started when I was a little girl specifically with my grandmother. During the time that she grew up, just for reference, she was born in 1928, there wasn't a lot of avenues available for her as far as like reading literature and things of that nature. So by default, you know, when it came to her learning how to read and and and things like that, it was a it was a bit slow going.

so when, you know, she obviously, you know, became of age and, you know, got me, you know, as her grandchild and everything else, her big thing with me was to essentially turn me into a scholar because she saw education, specifically reading, as like, you know, a way of escape, you know, for for different social situations that you may be placed in. Because again, we live in the South.

of the United States and the Southern United States, you know, we do have a history as far as, you know, racism and, you know, Jim Crow and and things like that. So she grew up during that time, during that time. So to her, and it still rings true to this day, education is a way out. Education can make your life better. Education can, you know, move mountains. So she instilled that in me specifically when it came to

reading. She wanted me to be a phenomenal reader. So she was the one who taught me how to read and made sure I read every single day. So whether it was, you know, books that she had access to, like hand me down books from like my older cousins or the Bible or whatever, the newspaper, whatever she can get her hands on to teach me how to read, that's what she would use. So a lot of my inspiration for the work that I do, she is at the core of what

I do. as far as my first interactions with the libraries as a little girl, my mother, and this is when my mother comes in with her influence, her main thing is she would always take me to the library. So we did have a local library in my community, it's called Brute Memorial Library in Plant City, Florida. And she would always take me there. So you know that was one of my safe spaces. So I would go there and be there for hours and I would be looking at books specifically in the children's section because you know I'm kid.

speaker-1 (05:04.832)
And I noticed that a lot of the books that I would pick out that weren't, you know, animal books or, you know, books about like animals or creatures or things like that, the books that had people in them, they did not have people that looked like me or, you know, reflected my culture. So I would go to the librarians and I would simply say, Hey, you know, where are the books that showcase, you know, black people, you know, or people of color or, you know, something like that.

And, you know, our the selection was limited, I would say, at the time when I was there. There weren't there wasn't a big emphasis because I grew up in the nineties for reference. I was born in nineteen ninety-one. So I came of age as far as being a little kid in like, you know, nineteen ninety-six, nineteen ninety seven, as far as cognitively remembering going to the library and everything else. So at that time, representation wasn't, I would say, as

forward facing as it is now. Like at this point, and I'm glad to say you can throw a stone and you can pick up a children's book about just about any culture, any, you know, any person, anything, you know, you can you can find it. But at the time there was, you know, it was it was fairly limited. And you know, sometimes a lot of books that did feature, you know, in my case, African Americans, black Americans, people of color, they were, you know, an adult

literature, right? So, you know, if I wanted to, you know, read about my culture or whatever the case may be, I basically had to read, you know, at an adult or a collegiate level. And at that time I just simply was not ready to read like that because I was a kid. So from there, I took that experience and the way that I felt when I just was kind of looking around and I was like, well, there's nothing here for me. I don't see any books that, you know, represent me or my culture, anything like that.

kept that sentiment with me all these years. So when I do my research in children's literature, not the specifically black children's literature or black youth literature. And again, my research, it kind of runs the the gamut of the diaspora. So it's not just black Americans here in the States, but it's also, you know, people of, you know, in the Caribbean, on the African continent. So when I say black youth literature, I mean everybody.

speaker-1 (07:25.824)
So that's the research that I focus on and do. But of course, you know, the heart of my research is going to be, you know, black youth children's literature based here in the United States. So when I went into that research, I kept that that thought process, that memory of how I felt, because my goal and I feel is my job to do the research that continues the tradition of representation and making sure that children

Who look like me, they can go on the library and they don't have the same issues that I did in the nineties growing up, where, you know, there's little to no books where you look at a book and you can't really relate because, you know, it's, you know, a a white child that, you know, may or may not have the same experiences as you, may not have the same cultural experiences as you, and then you're forced to relate to them.

versus it mean a mutual relation, right? Like I certainly believe that, you know, as much as representation needs to be there for children of color, representation needs to also be there for white children as well too, because they need to know about our culture and things of that nature as much as we need to know about theirs. You know, it needs to be a you know an equitable give and take as far as cultural sharing is concerned. So that's what the the core of my work is I want to make sure that no child

goes into a library and they don't have what they need to feel represented and to be seen within the books that they they love and and and the same with their culture and and everything else. So that's the core of my work and that's how it shaped my work within librarianship, within academia. You know, granted I'm you know I'm doing more so of of the research, you know, piece of that, but that research leads to actionable choices being that

speaker-0 (09:14.328)
made.

speaker-1 (09:15.768)
produce books that are heavy within within you know representation and making sure that everybody is

speaker-0 (09:23.814)
Now you are the new executive director of the global literature and libraries initiative. Please tell us more about this organization GLLI.

speaker-1 (09:35.278)
So G L L I, what we do as an organization is we first and foremost, we champion global literature just globally. You know, we want to make sure that again, same as what I do within my work, that we are that we make sure that we bring people, whether it's authors, scholars, to the forefront that champion global literature. We are incredibly big on making sure that

That is the case. When I came on as executive director of this organization, our goals were to be more expansive and kind of touch on other cultures and countries that may or may not have heavy representation in the global literacy space. So in my particular case, my my call or my

suggestion when I first was, you know, being interviewed for the position was making sure that we had representation on the African continent, specifically within, you know, children's literature, because that's my area of expertise. And that was, it just happened to be an area that they too, the board wanted to expand on as well too. So that's what we're in the process of doing now is making sure that every every cultural aspect, every, every country for the most part has

equal representation, right? So if I go on the the website of our organization and I say, hey, I want to look up, you know, Korean children's literature, there's just as much available for that as if I wanted to, you know, learn about, you know, literature, you know, based in Kenya or wherever the case may be. And another thing that we really want to grow and do as well too is just kind of

get our name out there in spaces where we normally would not have been. So again, we're very blog heavy. You know, we also have like a very forward facing blog. We accept guests, you know, writers and and and bloggers and and things of that nature to, you know, get their perspectives out and make sure we have that available. We have themes as far as, you know, the month. So for example, one theme

speaker-1 (11:50.85)
Let's say if it's February here in the United States, usually in February, February is Black History, Black American History Month here in the United States. So we may have a guest blogger come in and write a piece about that. If it's like women's, you know, month, we'll have somebody come in and write a piece about that as it pertains to global literature. So we are again very blog heavy, but I would love us to, you know, also, you know, be in the podcast space. I want to make sure that we do, you know, programming, professional development. So we want to take

us I want to take us like you know the strong foundation that we already have and I want to move it into like different areas in different lanes so that we can be a bit more robust than what we are now because again blogging is essential writing is essential like writing and reading go hand in hand but for those who may not necessarily read you know blogs or or read articles or things like that

I want them to be able to read us in different mediums as well too. So that's what we are currently working on now. We're also working on, you know, developing programming. As I stated a couple seconds ago, we're working on developing programming, professional development programming, and also events where we can really cultivate just a strong community of individuals who are incredibly passionate about global literature, about global literature.

speaker-0 (13:17.068)
your overall research you you analyze the anti-blackness and under-representation. So how does bringing this diverse global narrative into local libraries will help dismantle

speaker-1 (13:31.72)
for me, I think the biggest thing when it comes to speaking about anti-blackness, you know, within like, you know, local library spaces or in your cases you mentioned like government libraries, we call them public libraries, over here, but you know, same, same, same, same area, is really just recognizing it, right? So like just erasing the ignorance around it because a lot of people or a lot of libraries could be

you know, and acting in anti-blackness and they don't even realize it, right? And it can be and it doesn't have to be anything like that's, you know, mean spirited adversary, or it could just you just simply don't know. Like for example, one one thing that I've that I see in public libraries here in the United States is we only put out or promote certain books when the time is apropos, right? So when I say that, for example, February, Black History Month.

This is the only time that we'll showcase books about black culture, black life, black Americans, things of that nature, only in February. And then once February is over, they'll go back on the shelves. We don't promote them anymore because February is over. Same when it's, you know, you know, Hispanic Heritage Month here. We will put out books that talk about Latinx heritage and and culture and things like that. But once that is all over with,

we'll put the books back and then we'll go back with you know our our usual front facing books. And a lot of times those usual books that are often on display don't reflect the diverse the diversity that we have here in the United States as far as reputation is concerned. So that in and of itself, if we're talking about black culture is anti blackness because again you only, you know, showcase blackness when it's apropos, when it makes sense, quote unquote, versus

year round, right? Like if we're talking about if we're having a theme about, you know, books around like food or things like that, it makes sense to have books that are written by black authors that speak about that topic, right? You don't only have to showcase black authorship when it's Black History Month. So that's one way that I want to kind of bring attention to what I would consider unintentional anti-blackness.

speaker-1 (15:47.586)
That you'll see in public libraries. Again, it's not mean spirited. It is not something that, you know, librarians, you know, they go out of their way to do per se. But it's just something that we're so programmed to do here in the United States, putting individuals kind of like in pockets like this is your day, this is your spot, this is your space, and this is where you're going to be, versus, you know, everybody kind of mixing and mingling,

together. So it's not necessarily something that is conscious that that is that's consciously done. A lot of times it's unconsciously done because I always like to believe that librarians, people that work in the library space, especially with the work that we do, always have the best intentions when it comes to how they set up their showcases, how they, you know, curate their collections and things of that nature. I'm always going to assume the best of everybody until, you know, until I see otherwise.

So just kind of being at the forefront and kind of catching those things early and educating librarians, scholars and researchers on things of that nature as it, you know, present. And again, it's not just, you know, also anti-blackness. And again, I, you know, write about that a lot, but you know, it can be, you know, anti something else. It can be anti LGBTQIA. It can be, you know, anti, you know, Hispanic, you know, culture. It you know, it can be a lot of anti

when it comes to things that are not seen as the norm, right? You know, like cultures and people that are seen as that are seen as marginalized within American culture and they're, you know, regaled to a certain pocket or a space. So as it pertains to black culture, I want to highlight that and then, you know, show, you know, these things and and what's happening so people will be aware of them.

And then I also provide solutions to where it's not just, okay, this is the problem and and that's it. Okay, here's the problem. What what do we do? You know, I'm very much a problem solver and solution oriented. So if I'm going to point out a problem, I'm also going to point out a solution as well too. So that's what a lot of my work hinges on. I also I point out the problems, but I also give suggestions for actionable solutions. So solutions that don't take years to enact, something that can be done immediately. So

speaker-1 (18:04.832)
a book display, for example, you can easily change that up. That that only takes a you know a couple of minutes or so to curate, you know, display books for a particular theme or a particular topic that's fairly, you know, mixed and fairly diverse culturally, right? That's not something that has to go through bureaucracy and red tape to make happen. There are definitely some some problems that, you know, are a bit bigger, that take time and effort and and a and a multitude of

of people working in collaboration together to solve. But little things like that can be solved immediately within a library system. It doesn't it doesn't take much.

speaker-0 (18:41.794)
One of the fascinating concepts that you have come up with is spreading literacy with no walls needed and for those who are unfamiliar with the concept, could you please elaborate the concept and explain this library in a box project and the other part of the question is how your time as Peace Corps volunteer in Uganda inspired this solution, portable scalable solution.

speaker-1 (19:08.782)
Sure, sure, sure. So this is a fun question. for me, I'll kind of I'll start at the end of the question and work my way back up to the beginning if that makes any sense. So for those who may or may not know, I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Uganda, Africa from 2015 to 2017. I was an English teacher there, and I taught third, fourth,

third primarily third and fourth grade and I also did supplement work and lessons with the rest of the grades. So the school that I was placed at, I believe if I'm remembering correctly, we went all the way up to the set the the US equivalent of the seventh grade. So like middle school. So we you know we were cut off right at middle school. So a lot of the work that I did there also laid the groundwork for the Librarian abroad project because that

particular project I aim to solve an issue that I saw in Uganda which is just lack of brick and mortar libraries and digital libraries as well too. As you may or may not know in certain areas of Uganda they're incredibly rural. So having a brick and mortar library can at times be a luxury. You know, having a collection of books, any collection of books, whether they be textbooks, storybooks, children's books,

Whatever the case may be, you know, it's a very valuable resource. But again, at times it can be very expensive to establish a collection. It can be also very expensive to maintain that collection, right? So I was very blessed when I went there. They already had a pretty strong children's literature collection when I went there. So what I

Did was first and foremost like enhance that collection. So we did like a book drive. So I had, you know, my community and my networks back home donate, you know, lots of books to kind of continue to, you know, increase their collection. And then one of the things that I also did while I was there was to write a grant that helped build or rather establish their first brick and mortar library because at the time

speaker-1 (21:15.928)
the library was essentially, you know, either books that were just shoved into like a shed, or, you know, they were kind of somewhat sharing space with the teacher's lounge. So, you know, we did, you know, there wasn't a library in a traditional sense of like how you would think of a library. And I'm, you know, not necessarily talking about how libraries are done here in the West, but just the idea of a library, which is we have a collection of books. There's tables and chairs. You can sit down, you can read books, you can check books out.

Can do research, all of that jazz. So my the grant that I wrote it was a fairly small grant. I want to say it was about $7,000, which you know, given the context, $7,000 is not a lot of money. But in Uganda, if it's managed right, it can do quite a bit. So we were able to, you know, refurbish a building, got tables and chairs made, and you know, reinforce like the bookshelves and

and and things like that and buy the school additional resources to help them maintain that collection. So from doing that in problem solving and problem shooting with, you know, the the headmistress and the stakeholders at the school in the community, one of the things that I kept running into is, you know, we would have other schools that would see the work that we were doing and they were like, we would love to do that, but we don't have resources for an actual collection.

Right. So so how do we do that? So that's where that that inspiration came from from Library in a Box. it's still for the most part still, you know, kinda in in its development stage because I've been working on it kind of off and on with like all the different responsibilities that I have. But the core of library in a box and the notion of you know spreading literacy without walls is library in a box is essentially just that, library inside of a box.

And as of right now, the prototype that I have put together for that is a e-reader, a terabyte, you know, you know, a terabyte that is full of digital books and things like that that can be shared and passed around from community member to community member. And then I'm also in the process of developing a manual that essentially teaches, you know, your average person how to start a library and how to maintain a library. So, you know, again.

speaker-1 (23:30.05)
Libraries can look incredibly different from community to community, space to space, city to city, town to town, so forth and so forth. So I did not want people to think that a library had to be a brick and mortar, meaning it had to be a building, it had to be a big collection of books, like it it it had to be that. A library could literally be somebody that is maintaining a terabyte with a digital collection on there and making sure that everybody has access to it.

and making sure that people have, you know, copies of the book and and things like that and and doing like the updates. So you literally can be a librarian managing a digital collection of over a thousand books with just a computer and like a jump drive, right? So that's the the idea I wanted to have. I did not want library librarians, being a librarian or librarian librarian ship, librarianship, excuse me, to be inaccessible.

I wanted to make it more accessible to everybody because I'm of the belief if you want to be a librarian, if you want to manage a collection, you should not have to necessarily have the barrier of finances or a lack of, you know, a background in library and information studies or science to hinder you from from doing that, right?

So, 'cause, you know, I'm a big proponent of, you know, education, traditional education as far as getting a master's, PhD and everything else, because, you know, I I went through that myself. But I'm also aware that that might not be the the the journey for everybody and that's okay. Like we need librarians from all walks of life. We need librarians who are more grassroots and on the ground and they, you know, they organically manage collections versus

somebody who's like in an academic library space and we have these big huge collections and we have a budget and librarians, you know, and all this this whole ecosystem to manage. So that's where that idea came from. So as of right now, like I said, we're we're in the process of working on the prototype. We did do a bit of a test run on it while I was in East Africa. I recently came back, I want to say about how many months ago was that? About

speaker-1 (25:35.81)
Three to four months ago at this point, maybe five months at this point, I came back from Kenya because I was on a Fulbright scholarship while I was over there. So I was doing work in Kenya. So we were able to do a couple of test runs with it in Kenya with partnerships with some of our nonprofit partners over there. So we've gotten a lot of good feedback, a lot of good data. So we're in the process of like kind of tweaking that particular prototype around and like I said, writing that manual.

And our hope is within the next couple of years that we have like an actual, you know, a fully realized prototype that is ready to go. And now we can start kind of dropping that into communities. It's something that I want to, you know, kind of pilot in areas, you know, globally and also here in the United States, because you know, you know, everybody kind of knows the reputation of the United States or the West when it comes to like libraries and and things of that nature, but we too have pockets here.

of places that need that kind of assistance or need that lift as far as librarianship is concerned. Not everybody has a public library in their city or town. And even if they do, not everybody has access to transportation or a vehicle or whatever may have you to get to that library. So what do you do in cases like that, right? So this particular project I have in mind is, you know, mainly for you know rural areas and and and communities that want to establish, you know,

more organic grassroots libraries versus you know integrating into like a bigger library system. Eventually, you know, years down the line, we may come out with a prototype that does that, like it feeds into like a larger or already established library system. But as of right now, I want to create something where you can just open the box and if you know nothing about librarianship and you just simply want to start a library, this is what you do. You can just open the box and everything you need is right there and ready to.

speaker-0 (27:32.28)
So could you please clarify how do these kids get access to books in this case? Are you going to give them an e-reader or something?

speaker-1 (27:41.164)
So the device can literally be anything in there. It will be an e-reader included in the prototype. That's what we have right now. But again, we do have a terabyte that can hold all these books and essentially, you know, students or or or individuals can literally come to whoever is deemed, let's say, you know, the librarian for that particular community. Hey, I want to get a copy of, you know, the Snowy Day or I want to get a copy of, I don't know, Jane Eyre, whatever the book is, right?

they can come with their own device, they can come with their phone, they can come with their laptop, they can come with their computer or whatever they have, and that person who's managing that collection can say, Here, here's a copy of this particular book. And again, it's not costing them a lot of money, it's not costing them a lot of resources, just overall upkeep and management of the the digital collections. So again, I want it to be where anybody can come and basically just, you know,

grab and and and take a book because one of the other issues that I saw that that arose or rather that educators and and and school leaders had an issue with was the library lending system, right? So like here in the United States, everybody's fully aware of like what a library lending system looks like. You go get a library card, they have you in the system, they have you in this big database, you go in, you check out books, you have the books, you bring them back.

In Uganda in particular, the issue that we kept, you know, running into is that we would loan out these books and they would not come back for whatever reason or they would come back. The books sometimes will come back damaged and there aren't a lot of mechanisms and I'm specifically talking about my particular school. I certainly don't want to make a generalization about the country as a whole, but at my particular school they didn't necessarily have

the the resources in regards to time to like repair the books, fix the books, hunt down, you know, students and and make sure they bring the books back when they had other teaching responsibilities. So our library almost is essentially like a reading library, meaning you go in, you take the books off the shelf, you sit down, you read them there at the school, and then you put the books back, and then if you want to, you know, read them again or whatever, you come back the next day and you do that. So that was

speaker-1 (29:59.608)
kind of the the deal we had to where the students can actively come and interact with the books, but the school didn't have to worry about, you know, missing or losing pieces of their collection. So when I created Library in a Box, that is what I had in mind of kind of eliminating the the issue of, okay, if we loan out these books, if we have these collection of books and we loan them out and we don't get them back or they come back severely damaged to where we can't

you know, loan them out again, then what? So that's when I decided that a digital database with somebody like managing it or or multiple people managing a digital database that can, you know, it's it's a combination of digital and analog at the same time, you know, 'cause it's literally like it's a terabyte that's essentially getting passed around and making sure that you have multiple like backup copies of it to where if something happens where say a terabyte is, you know, compromised or taken or whatever else they're

you don't lose your entire collection because it's spread everywhere. And then it's also spread within your community as well too, because if I give you, say I give you a a copy of a particular book and terabyte is compromised and we're the process of like, you know, gaining all our our collections back, I can go to that person and be like, hey, you have a copy of this particular book. Can I get that copy from you? And I can just, you know, you can kind of organically or grassroots-wise within a community setting, you know, establish that and and build that that ecosystem back up

So again, it still has some bugs, you know, some things that we're we're working through because you know, this library in a box project isn't the end all to be all as far as solving some of these problems. Cause some of these problems are just, you know, for lack of you know, just being honest, they're a bit more complex than what we're able to solve as of right now. You know, we're still trying to collect data, we're still trying to do research. So these are some really complex issues surrounding surrounding accessibility when it comes to

literacy and literature and things of that nature and and collection building and whatnot, but I wanted to at least give it a good honest try and and attempt to solve a problem with a solution that I personally thought in in partnership, in collaboration with my communities that I have to solve these particular issues. I didn't think it was good to just have a problem just sitting out in the in the ethos and

speaker-1 (32:22.454)
nobody or rather, you know, a lot of people weren't coming up with with solutions to it. So that's what Library in a Box essentially is, a solution to a problem that I that I saw and recognized when I was a Peace Corps volunteer and problems that I saw that mirrored some of the issues that we had here in the United States.

speaker-0 (32:41.558)
And you just touched upon it few minutes ago, you said that anyone can be a librarian without any reference to the educational qualifications. So how does your project partner with this self taught or community librarians in rural villages, remote parts of the country?

speaker-1 (33:01.9)
Yeah, so for me, the way that my the way that my project and my research assists with that is just an idea of the grassroots librarian. So my vision or my idea of what a grassroots librarian is is somebody who say, for example, if we're just gonna give like a generic profile of somebody who would fit the bill, so it can be someone, you know, say an adult who, you know, loves books, love literature, really big on literacy.

and they want to, you know, be a librarian or they, you know, they've heard of an idea as far as like being a librarian. As we know in most countries, to be a, you know, what I call like, you know, like an official librarian of sorts, you have to have some form of education in your background. Usually the most common piece of education you have is a ma at bare minimum a masters in library and information studies or librarian information science. However, you know, your particular

university system classifies it. You have to have that as a bare minimum, as a as a bare you know, as a bare minimum to to enter into a field. But again, pulling from my experiences in Uganda and just here in the United States as well, too, higher education, and that's that's a that's a discussion for another day as far as the issues within higher education. But at times there are many barriers to entry to have that

level of education to be considered like an official librarian, right? So finances are a big barrier for a lot of people. Time is a barrier for a lot of people, you know, knowing, you know, what programs to select, you know, will I be able to to do the work necessary to gain like this particular piece of education. So there are a lot of barriers put in place where a lot of times I'm a firm believer that depending on the context and what type of

library you want to create, what kind of collection you want to curate, you don't necessarily need a master's degree for it, right? If you just want to make sure that there are there's literature available for the people in your community, for example, you don't necessarily need a degree to be a librarian in that sense. So that's where that thought process came from of anybody can be a librarian, right? And I'm and I say that not to diminish

speaker-1 (35:24.78)
my field and the professionals within my field and all the the years and the time and and the you know blood, sweat and tears that we've put into gaining, you know, our education. And I again I'm speaking as somebody who's a PhD holder. But with that being said, again, depending on the context, there are certain certain issue there are certain, I would say spaces where again, I personally don't necessarily see the need for you to hold

a master's in library science to make sure that your community has access to literacy and have access to literature. So that's why I, you know, develop or am developing a manual that basically like walks you through that process of how to establish a a grassroots librarian and basically how to be a boots on the ground grassroots librarian. So having that profile of you know what that would look like for somebody, somebody who may who really wants to be a librarian but either doesn't have the time

Or doesn't have the, you know, the financial means to go to library school essentially and gain that education. What would that look like for them? So that's something that is kind of one of my bigger projects of of you know putting that together in a way that is digestible for, you know, the average person, right? So writing it from a lens of, you know.

I'm just a everyday person, but I want to be a librarian and I want to start a library versus setting it up for an academic, if that makes any sense. Because usually if you're in academia, if you're in the library space, you know, you're not necessarily, you know, growing like a grassroots library. Or maybe you are, you know, who knows? It you know, they this this is, you know, fair for the most part accessible to everyone, but the particular audience we are targeting is is an individual who, you know, for whatever reason cannot

break down those barriers to access, but they still want to be a librarian. So that's who we are targeting with the whole librarian in the box thing and then also with the manual that would be a part of Library in the Box but also can also be its its own standalone thing as well too. I'm I'm really passionate about that and and I feel like there is a

speaker-1 (37:38.944)
a need for that in a lot of places. But again, I I saw definitely saw a need for that in Uganda and I saw a need for that in Kenya as well too. And then I also saw that a lot of the librarians that were in these countries, they were like non-traditional librarians, right? They were appointed at their school, right? So like school librarians, for example, they don't necessarily have their masters in

library science or anything like that. They were just this teacher that maybe had the most time available and the headmistress or the headmaster was like, Hey, you, you're gonna be our librarian now. And they're just like, Okay, what do I do? You know, in the midst of all of this. So even like for our non-traditional librarians, just someone who can, you know, I want to take what I've learned from being kind of like on the side of that of, you know, being like a community librarian, a non-traditional librarian prior to

getting my, you know, degrees and things of that nature and also looking at it from the lens of academia as well to kind of mixing those together to create something to where if you pick it up, anybody can be a librarian and do the

speaker-0 (38:44.846)
So you mentioned that there is a box for that when it comes to areas facing censorship or lack of diverse books in the current time. How does your initiative help communities maintain autonomy or the stories that they have access to?

speaker-1 (39:00.686)
The way my project specify if you're you know specifically talking about librarian of box, the way that that project does that is we are really big on circumventing traditional libraries, if that makes any sense. We're a big fan of partnering with with local, excuse me, with traditional libraries, and when I mean traditional libraries like your public libraries, government libraries, academic libraries, really big on partnership.

However, library in the box was essentially created to live outside of a traditional library ecosystem due to, you know, due to censorship issues, right? Usually when it's a government library or public library, academic library, there are certain things that, you know, can and cannot be made available. Or rather, there are, you know, people who are very big on policing what

public library or what a government library should make available to the public. And that varies from country to country, state to state, county to county, parish to parish, so forth and so forth, right? There are some places where they don't have issues when it comes to censorship and book bans and the community is perfectly fine with whatever they have available and you know everything is great. Then there are other communities where book banning and protesting and things like that are

really, really intense. So it at times can be hard to, you know, make that information via the literature available to the public without facing friction and tension from certain groups and things of that nature. So with Librarian in Box, it is me it is a means to circumvent that. So you can essentially curate a particular, a particular collection for your community within you know the context of need.

So again, let's say a topic of LGBTQIE, right? In some spaces, those topics, whether it's just showcasing, you know, a same-sex couple, you know, together, you know, parenting a child or whatever the case may be in a book, that in and of itself can be incredibly controversial. Like nothing crazy is going on. It's just two same-sex individuals, they have a child. That in certain communities is a big no-no. It's incredibly taboo. We don't want that book here at the library.

speaker-1 (41:27.232)
So library in the box would allow a community who wants that representation within their collection to have that without facing great public or you know governmental backlash, I would say. So that's why I say I'm really big on partnering with the traditional library system, but not necessarily, you know, having them kind of run and run.

every everything as far as a community library is concerned. That community library should be just that what the community wants. And the libraries that are, you know, doing the work within the traditional library system as far as, you know, putting their careers on the line and even at times putting their lives on the line to make sure that the public has access to information, whether they agree with that information or not, the goal is to make sure that you have access to it. There are plenty of books that I'm just like

I don't think this is a book that anybody should be reading, but I would never within my, you know, my professionalism, I would never say that is a book that that needs to be completely off limits to people. Never. It is something that, you know, that information needs to be made available. So I'm really big on I may or may not agree with it as a individual, as a parent.

Or as a student, as a African American, or whatever the case may be, but I'm always gonna be in agreement with that particular book always being available because we never know what can come out of someone having access to that information. Right? Whether it's you know positive or negative, that's the choice of the individual to go in and be able to have access to a particular

speaker-0 (43:11.182)
Now that you have finished your Fulbright project in Kenya, this library in a box framework, how do you want to cater to the specific needs of East African region with this project?

speaker-1 (43:25.39)
So for me, the way I will want to cater to East African readers is my main thing is accessibility and making sure that there are collections available that represent them and their culture. Now again, granted I am black, you know, you know, there's you know black people, you know, across the diaspora. I certainly don't want to go in as somebody who is the authority on East African culture because I'm not an East African. I am African.

black black American, but I'm not an East African. So I always come in from, you know, a posture of, you know, being like a guest within that particular culture. Even though cultures are very similar because of, you know, shared community, I always come in as a guest within that particular culture. So for me, the main thing that I lean on, you know, as far as my area of expertise, without stepping on anyone's toes and without being disrespectful

from a cultural standpoint is working on more of the logistical issues, which is accessibility and making sure that there are books, you know, there are libraries available to access those those books. So specifically in East Africa, if you are wanting or having a a traditional, you know, library collection. So like, you know, we have a curation of a particular set of books, my goal is to help you

as far as managing that collection, growing that collection if that's something that you wanna do, and maintaining that collection. Because again, a lot of these libraries are based in rural areas. So environmental issues, something as simple as like a rainstorm or, you know, a termite infestation can just totally wipe out a complete, you know, collection or something like that. And that is something that happened to the collection that we had at the school that I was a teacher at. Termites came in like eight

over half of books. So, you know, I want to my my thing is I want to help help brainstorm solutions and enact solutions, actionable changes that help with more of the logistical aspects of, you know, having maintaining and having and establishing a library in East Africa, as well as the representation piece as well too.

speaker-1 (45:46.454)
And again, not generalizing, you know, all of East Africa, but because of the history of colonization and things of that nature, a lot of the children's books that you will see will feature, you know, it will either be predominantly animals or it will be, you know, white people. Right. Absolutely. And that's yeah, and that's, you know, the history of you know colonization and things of that nature. So I also want to really lean into that, you know, we can, you know, diversify the book collections and even if you

get books that represent different cultures, you know, diversify the cultures that are rep representative. So a lot of what I did again when I was in Uganda, when I was in East Africa, when I was in Kenya as well, too, is kind of like that cross-diaspora exchange of culture, right? Like what are East Africans doing or what would they want as far as representation versus West Africans, North Africans?

Caribbeans, you know, black Americans, you know, is a part of like that that greater African diaspora as far as our backgrounds are concerned. And having an ecosystem that kind of, you know, exchanges culture within that lens versus cultural exchange only being sequestered to, you know, an influx of books about white people or even just an influx of books about American culture, because those two tend to go hand in hand a lot, you know.

So those are the things that I usually focus on. And then when it comes to the cultural aspects, I normally follow behind, you know, East Africans as far as like their wants and needs are concerned, because I can relate quite a bit, you know, because of my background being a black American here in the United States, but I can't relate all the way because again, you know, I'm not Kenyan, I'm not Ugandan, I'm not Rwandan. So I want to always be respectful.

to the things that are different and be really big on sharing and and and loving in in the in the similarities between the cultures.

speaker-0 (47:49.922)
Now, finally, you have spoken about the disappearance of these third places outside of our home and work. So, as you look, as you peek into the future, how do we ensure that libraries remain a safe space for identity building and belonging for the next year?

speaker-1 (48:08.498)
And I think for me, my idea around that is to center the library within more within a space of revolution and advocacy. And when I say that meaning that being a librarian, whether you're, you know, quote unquote a traditional librarian, you know, whether you're a traditional librarian, where you're a librarian, you know, practitioner, scholar, kind of like myself.

Or you're a community librarian or somebody who just has a really large book collection and you just organically share it with your community. I wanted to reside in a space where revolution is seen as love and joy, and advocacy is seen as just the really aggressive spread of information in a a positive way, like teaching, you know, information literacy and making sure that information via

literature is available to to everybody who who wants that that to be. So when I say the revolution is love and joy, I want that to be the if it was if it was me in a perfect world and I was in control of everything, I would want that to be the center of, you know, curating libraries for the next generation. When you go into a library, you should not feel

scared or ashamed or feel that, you know, if I take out this book, people are gonna look at me, you know, weird or they're gonna slap it out of my hand and say, like, you know, this is a banned book, you can't have this, right? I want people to go be able to go into any library, whether it's academic, public, government, grassroots, your personal library, and feel happiness and joy when they walk inside, you know, when they pick up a book and they sit out and read, they feel at peace and they feel safe.

And you know, as much as I wish this wasn't the case, you know, that's a revolutionary act, right? Going into a library and being able to to to freely read and and pick up literature and converse with your community members and and talk and things like that, that's a revolutionary act in a lot of places. So in the midst of in the midst of, you know, the different climates that we are in globally.

speaker-1 (50:17.698)
But for me specifically speaking, specifically about the United States, I want libraries to always be a center of happiness and love and joy. And I feel like when libraries are centered in that, you know, when when when advocacy and and and and revolution and acting is is centered within that, it's a lot easier to get people on board, right? So that's that's what I always want to champion and what

Within my projects, within my research, that's what I always center the work that I do because I I want to kind of be the change that I I wish to see in the world. So I center that in my projects, in my programs, and my papers and things like that. So it can be shared with others so that they can take what I do by example and apply it to their own revolutionary acts of loving.